Rick, just for reference, I heard a scientist talking about what an Arctic that is ice free in the summer would mean. One of the things he said is that once it becomes ice free in the summer there are natural processes that will quickly eliminate the ice in the winter with commensurate rises in overall temps to make that happen (we have lots of fossil evidence of tropical conditions up there in the arctic circle previously, Palm Trees and everything). He didn’t quantify what “quickly” would mean (decade or two?).
So Joe is really probably talking about a year round ice free Arctic that is nigh. And it won’t be good when it happens – if you think about how much those colder temp air masses up north drive our weather patterns here in the US and Canada.
And to think there are still editorials floating around on mainstream media outlets claiming we’re still in the midst of a global cooling trend (based on cherry picking of course). I guess the ice just doesn’t get it.
Oh, and as an aside, I don’t know if anyone else has been having this problem, but for me, pages on climateprogress don’t always load properly at first (in Firefox 3.5.1). They stop halfway through the banner and I have to refresh to get the rest of the page. Maybe it’s just my setup.
I think the “area with 15% ice extent” measure may mask the true extent of ice loss. If the ice cover is very stable, there will be very little calving. Most of the ice will be in large, solid chunks. The small pieces that calve off infrequently will not be enough to count in the “15% ice extent”.
On the other hand, if the ice is unstable and there are lots of small pieces calving at a high right, what happens? My guess i you get a larger area that is just above the “15% ice extent” threshold.
This is my hypothesis for why ice volume was a record low in 2008, even though “15%” ice area was not.
The easiest way to visualize it, and probably a reasonably accurate way, is to think of the Arctic Ice Cap (and Greenland) as the central air conditioning unit for the Northern Hemisphere.
Now, think about your own house. What happens when, in the middle of summer, your air conditioner stops working?
Hint: There is no service company you can call to rush over and quickly repair the Arctic Ice Cap.
“There is no service company you can call to rush over and quickly repair the Arctic Ice Cap”.
But you can still make the people that caused the world fever pay for what they have done to the planet and to humanity.At least, justice is still possible.
Do you mean year-round, or summer, ice free arctic is nigh?
obviously summer – It’s like -50 up there in the winter
Sure, NOW it is. heh.
Rick, just for reference, I heard a scientist talking about what an Arctic that is ice free in the summer would mean. One of the things he said is that once it becomes ice free in the summer there are natural processes that will quickly eliminate the ice in the winter with commensurate rises in overall temps to make that happen (we have lots of fossil evidence of tropical conditions up there in the arctic circle previously, Palm Trees and everything). He didn’t quantify what “quickly” would mean (decade or two?).
So Joe is really probably talking about a year round ice free Arctic that is nigh. And it won’t be good when it happens – if you think about how much those colder temp air masses up north drive our weather patterns here in the US and Canada.
What is the definition of “nigh” and is it at all related to what “is” “is”?
Either way, Sasparilla, we are in for something nigh that is not nice. I was just wondering how soon.
And to think there are still editorials floating around on mainstream media outlets claiming we’re still in the midst of a global cooling trend (based on cherry picking of course). I guess the ice just doesn’t get it.
Oh, and as an aside, I don’t know if anyone else has been having this problem, but for me, pages on climateprogress don’t always load properly at first (in Firefox 3.5.1). They stop halfway through the banner and I have to refresh to get the rest of the page. Maybe it’s just my setup.
I think the “area with 15% ice extent” measure may mask the true extent of ice loss. If the ice cover is very stable, there will be very little calving. Most of the ice will be in large, solid chunks. The small pieces that calve off infrequently will not be enough to count in the “15% ice extent”.
On the other hand, if the ice is unstable and there are lots of small pieces calving at a high right, what happens? My guess i you get a larger area that is just above the “15% ice extent” threshold.
This is my hypothesis for why ice volume was a record low in 2008, even though “15%” ice area was not.
The trend is -900 km^3/yr? That has to be once of the scariest numbers I’ve seen in quite some time regarding energy or environmental issues.
5 years ice FY/MY is not significant enough in the Arctic summer sea ice timeline would we not say ?
[JR: No, we would say this study is a BIG deal.]
The easiest way to visualize it, and probably a reasonably accurate way, is to think of the Arctic Ice Cap (and Greenland) as the central air conditioning unit for the Northern Hemisphere.
Now, think about your own house. What happens when, in the middle of summer, your air conditioner stops working?
Hint: There is no service company you can call to rush over and quickly repair the Arctic Ice Cap.
“There is no service company you can call to rush over and quickly repair the Arctic Ice Cap”.
But you can still make the people that caused the world fever pay for what they have done to the planet and to humanity.At least, justice is still possible.
Now that it’s October, y’all might go and look at what actually happened:
http://nsidc.org/ arcticseaicenews/ 2009/ 091709.html
The minimum ice cover was larger than either 2007 or 2008. The up-to-date ice cover is here:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
(although that graph doesn’t allow comparisons with any year except 2007).
So much for a record low.
Would it qualify as ironic that Joe went so far as to put the word “VOLUME” in all caps?